Summary
Political leaders have faced challenging audience questions in a BBC Question Time Leaders' Special hosted by Fiona Bruce
Rishi Sunak was grilled on NHS waiting lists, Brexit and asked if he feels any “embarrassment” to be leader of the Conservative Party, given how many changes of leader it has had in the last few years
Labour leader Keir Starmer was asked about housing costs, his plans for the NHS and challenged on why he backed Jeremy Corbyn's election manifesto in 2019
SNP leader John Swinney was pressed over independence and the recent scandals in his party, admitting it's been a "turbulent time"
Lib Dem leader Ed Davey was asked about his campaigning antics, the party's spending plans and trust issues after the "broken promise" on tuition fees when in coalition government
Live Reporting
Edited by Owen Amos and Dulcie Lee
Thanks for readingpublished at 23:28 20 June
23:28 20 June
We're ending our coverage now - thank you for joining us for the Question Time Leaders' Special.
You can see our round-ups here and here, while our chief political correspondent Henry Zeffman's snap analysis is here.
For a fuller recap, read our 10 key takeaways here.
We'll be back tomorrow morning with more breaking news, analysis, and reporting from the campaign trail. See you then.
Are freeports a Brexit benefit?published at 23:04 20 June
23:04 20 June
By Ben Chu
Earlier on BBC Question Time, Rishi Sunak was pushed on whatbenefits Brexit had brought to the UK.
He highlighted the freeport at Teesside which he said “wecreated using our freedoms from Brexit”.
Freeports are areas that offer special business tax breaksto encourage investment. But the UK had a number of freeports while it was a member of the European Union and they exist across the EU., external
However, the government argues that - after Brexit - it hasmore freedom to set them up how it wants, as it is not tied to EU rules.
Sunak said Teesside was “attracting the investment andcreating the jobs”. But the government’s official economic forecaster, theindependent Office for Budget Responsibility, has cast doubt on the ideathat freeports overall have created additional economic activity,rather than just moving it from other areas of the UK.
In October 2021 the OBR wrote:, external “We have assumed that themain effect of the freeports will be to alter the location rather than thevolume of economic activity.”
Image source, ReutersHas the Scottish economy grown faster than the rest of the UK?published at 23:02 20 June
23:02 20 June
By Robert Cuffe
John Swinneysaid that since the SNP came to power in 2007, the sizeof the Scottish economy per person had grown “faster in Scotlandthan the rest of the UK”.
He’s right.
Between 2007-2023,Scotland’s real GDP per person grew by 10.7%, while the UK’s asa whole grew by about half that rate at 5.6%.
But Scotland is moreexposed to the ups and downs in one sector: oil and gas.
Speaking tothe BBC’s Sunday Show on 16 June, David Phillips of the Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank said: "When there's growthin the oil and gas industry, Scotland tends to outperform the rest of the UK.When it's struggling, as it was between 2014 and 2021, Scotland's economy tendsto do a bit worse."
Has Labour found the money to pay for extra staff?published at 22:57 20 June
22:57 20 June
By Ben Chu
The Labour leader sayshis party is committed to delivering the NHS long-term workforce plan and thatthis is “fully costed”.
The Labour manifesto pledgesa top-up of annual NHS England spending of around £1.8bn by2028-29 - which includes more appointments and items like scanners.
Its manifesto also saidit would deliver the NHS long-term workforce plan, which is to increasestaffing considerably by 2035.
But the Labour manifestodid not outline how it would pay for delivering the extra staff.
The independentInstitute for Fiscal Studies has estimated it would require NHS, external funding to growby more than 3% per year and would cost billions of pounds per year of extraspending over the next decade.
Do Lib Dem social care costings add up?published at 22:54 20 June
22:54 20 June
By Tom Edgington
See AlsoBBC 100 Women 2023: Who is on the list this year? - BBC NewsBiden to give legal status to 500,000 undocumented spousesFilms showing the reality of marriageMarried Women at the BBC: Before the BarSir Ed Davey stressed his party had put together “a verydetailed costed manifesto and it has got a big health and social care packageat the centre”.
The Lib Dems are promising free personal care at home forolder and disabled people in England, which they say would cost £2.7bn a yearby 2028-29. The party says that would be paid for by reversing tax cuts givento big banks, raising £4.2bn a year by 2028-29.
But despite the party setting out how it intends to pay forcare, the Nuffield Trust – an independent health think-tank – says the amount“looks to be inadequate”, external.
Davey has previously defended the sums, saying the planswould save the NHS “up to £3bn or more” from fewer hospital stays.
This is based on a 2019 report by the Institute for Public Policy Research, external, a centre-left think tank. It estimates free personalcare could generate savings of up to £2bn per year, rising to £3.3bn by 2031.
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland set their own socialcare policies.
Swinney uncomfortable when pressed on referendum prospectspublished at 22:54 20 June
22:54 20 June
Jenni Davidson
BBC Scotland senior political reporterJohn Swinney is very happy to answer questions about whyScotland should have another independece referendum if the party returns a majority of MPsin Scotland.
But he’s noticeably reticent about what happens if the SNPwins less than a 29-seat majority.
He was asked about that yesterday by journalists at the SNPmanifesto launch - and he was visibly uncomfortable when challenged again byFiona Bruce tonight.
Both times he has referred back to the 2021 Holyroodelection result, where a pro-independence majority of MSPs was elected atHolyrood – suggesting people should vote SNP at this election to deliver onthat 2021 result.
But given that the SNP has been unable to deliverindependence after winning 48 out of 59 Scottish seats in the 2019 generalelection, it is hard to see how they could make a case for it if their supportdrops this time round – and it’s clear John Swinney knows that.
Image source, ReutersLabour's Ashworth pressed on Corbyn questionpublished at 22:49 20 June
22:49 20 June
Henry Zeffman
Chief political correspondentLabour’s Jon Ashworth just facedsome difficult questions off-camera from journalists about Keir Starmer sayingthat Jeremy Corbyn would have made a better prime minister than BorisJohnson.
Like Starmer, but unlike manyother members of the current shadow cabinet, Ashworth served underCorbyn.
But Ashworth declined to saywhether he thought Corbyn would have been better than Johnson in office,insisting like Starmer that he always thought Corbyn would lose.
He added: “The tragedy for thecountry in 2019 was that there were two choices which many people felt theycould not support in Boris Johnson and the leader of the Labour Party at thetime.
"That is why Keir Starmer has been determined to utterly transform andchange the Labour Party, which he has done.”
Recap: Key lines from Davey and Swinneypublished at 22:48 20 June
22:48 20 June
Ed Davey
- The Lib Dem leader, faced with criticism over his record in the 2010-15 coalition government, said he made the "hard choice" to be in government and "fight" - but conceded he wasn't proud of every vote
- He said he hopes people go to prison over the Horizon Post Office scandal - and that he wished he had "seen through the lies" when he was postal affairs minister from 2010 - 2012
- When one audience member accused him of "horseplay" while campaigning, Davey said politicians shouldn't take themselves too seriously - and he insisted his manifesto was a serious plan, not merely a "wishlist"
John Swinney
- Swinney accepted it had been a "turbulent time" for the SNP, with one questioner asking how they could run an independent nation when the party has "destroyed itself from the top down"
- Pressed on waiting lists on the NHS in Scotland (run by the Scottish government) he insisted some parts of healthcare were better in Scotland, but conceded there were areas where they could learn from the rest of the UK
- Asked if a failure to get a majority of seats in Scotland would mean no mandate for a new independence referendum, Swinney insisted he was fighting for every vote - and said there was majority support for indendence in the Scottish Parliament
Recap: Key lines from Sunak and Starmerpublished at 22:33 20 June
22:33 20 June
Rishi Sunak
- The prime minister said he was "incredibly angry" at allegations that Tory insiders were betting on the election date - and promised to "boot out" anyone found to have broken rules
- On the NHS, the PM admitted "we haven't made as much progress as I would've liked" on waiting lists - but insisted record amounts were being spent on the NHS, a claim he invited BBC Verify to check
- He also repeated his willingness to leave the European Court of Human Rights - if it was a choice between national security and a "foreign court". Some applauded his stance - while others cried "shame"
Keir Starmer:
- Pushed several times on his past support of Jeremy Corbyn, Starmer said he didn't think it was possible for Labour to win the general election in 2019
- On migration, the Labour leader said he wanted to bring the numbers "down significantly", but refused to put a number on it, despite being asked how it was then possible to plan public services
- And on NHS waiting lists - a big topic this evening - Starmer said that over course of Parliament, a Labour government would get them down and clear the backlog entirely
(We're working on another round-up from John Swinney and Ed Davey's slots - that'll be with you imminently.)
How did they do? A snap verdictpublished at 22:21 20 June
22:21 20 June
Henry Zeffman
Chief political correspondentThree cheers for thatpolitically-engaged, forthright and occasionally impassioned audience who gavenone of the four leaders an easy time.
Some snap verdicts:
- Lib Dem leader Ed Davey’s gentle tone and focus on care appeared to engage the audiencebut it became clear how much the compromises of the coalition still haunt theLiberal Democrats nine years after it ended
- SNP leader John Swinney faced awkwardquestions about the SNP’s recent struggles but managed to spend much of thetime debating the policies of SNP administrations rather than the scandals itsleading personalities have faced
- Labour leader Keir Starmer had moments ofdifficulty, especially over his past support for Jeremy Corbyn and relatedquestions about his honesty. But I suspect the Labour campaign will feel thathe managed to get through the encounter relatively unscathed - at this pointtheir goal is to avoid major errors
- Whereas for Conservative leader Rishi Sunak the taskis to find a way to transform the election campaign. He certainly bounded ontothe stage with pep in his step, determined to land key messages on the economyand immigration. But the brutal reality is that the hostility of so many in theaudience showed how difficult his task is
Is migration at record levels?published at 22:15 20 June
22:15 20 June
By TamaraKovacevic
It's not just the prime minister we're verifying (see our previous post) - Labour leader Keir Starmer earlier said:"Migration is at record levels at the moment under this government.”
That’s notcorrect at the moment - but levels are very high.
The Labourleader was talking about legal migration to the UK.
Office forNational Statistics estimates suggests net migration in the year endingDecember 2023 was 685,000 - down from 764,000 in the year ending December 2022.
Image source, .As requested by the prime minister: What's happened to NHS spending?published at 22:04 20 June
22:04 20 June
By Anthony Reuben
The prime minister said:"There is more money going into the NHS today than there has been inits history and I'm sure BBC Verify after this debate will verify this foryou."
Indeed we have. There are different waysof measuring how much is being spent on the NHS in England.
The health budget for thisyear stands at £179.6bn, which is a record amount in cash terms. You wouldexpect that to be the case as the population grows and ages and medicaltreatment gets more expensive.
You can also look atwhat proportion of government spending is going on health and that has alsobeen increasing in recent years.
Spending on health as aproportion of the size of the economy peaked at 12.4% in 2021 during thepandemic. It fell back somewhat in the year after that but still remained abovepre-pandemic levels.
However,independent think-tank the Institute for Fiscal Studies has calculated that the government has been spending less than it planned to in its 2019 electionmanifesto, despite the pandemic.
The 2019 plans were forNHS spending to increase by 3.3% above inflation each year, but the IFS has calculated, external that it has gone up by 2.7% a year on average.
Applause and shouts show how polarised immigration ispublished at 22:00 20 June
22:00 20 June
Henry Zeffman
Chief political correspondentA glimpse of how polarised thedebate about illegal immigration and asylum is.
Rishi Sunak gave a passionatedefence of his willingness to consider leaving the European Court on HumanRights. Some in the audience applauded loudly. Others shouted “shame”.
Little wonder it’s such adifficult issue for politicians seeking to appeal to as wide as possible aslice of the electorate.
And that's it for the debate - stick with us for analysis.
Yes, the ECHR is a foreign court, it's in Strasbourg - Sunakpublished at 22:00 20 June
22:00 20 June
Bruce pushes on the same point, saying Britain helped set up ECHR, adding that it has a British judge. Is it really a foreign court? she asks.
Sunak says yes, it's a foreign court as it's in Strasbourg.
Finally, another man in the audience says Russia and Belarus are not in the ECHR, either, suggesting the UK should not consider leaving.
Sunak repeats his answer about putting the UK's national security first, if he had to.
'Will you leave the European Court of Human Rights?'published at 21:59 20 June
21:59 20 June
A woman asks if Sunak is considering leaving the European Court of Human Rights in order to achieve his plans to send people to Rwanda.
On the ECHR, Sunak says he is clear that he believes his plans are compliant, but says if a "foreign court" including the ECHR forces him to choose between national security and membership he is going to choose the former every time.
Some people applaud, but there are also shouts of "shame".
For context: The ECHR was established in 1950 by a number of countries including the UK. The treaty, which sets out the rights and freedoms people are entitled to in the 46 signatory countries, is overseen by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. It is separate to the European Union - so the UK remained part of both after Brexit. You can read more here.
No-one gets everything right - Sunakpublished at 21:57 20 June
21:57 20 June
Sunak says no-one gets everything right.
Bruce asks again - does he have any regrets?
The prime minister says he wishes he made more progress on waiting lists. But he says the economy is back in good health.
'Do you have any regrets?'published at 21:57 20 June
21:57 20 June
Next up Edie Lewis asks: "As Labour arepredicted to win a landslide majority, do you have any regrets about anydecisions taken during your premiership?"
Image source, BBC NewsAre waiting lists on the way down?published at 21:56 20 June
21:56 20 June
By Robert Cuffe, head of statistics
Rishi Sunak just told theQuestion Time audience: “What we’ve seen over the past few months iswaiting lists now are starting to come down.”
However, progress onwaiting lists has actually “stagnated”, according toindependent health think tank, the Nuffield Trust. Waiting lists now are farhigher than they were when the Conservatives came to power in 2010 and higherthan when Sunak pledged to reduce them in January 2023.
Last September, they hita peak of nearly 7.8 million before falling below 7.6 million by January.
The most recent fewmonths don’t show much progress. They've even risen very slightly in the latestfigures released last week.
Image source, .Starmer pursuing 'same fantasy' as Liz Truss - Sunakpublished at 21:56 20 June
21:56 20 June
Another question from the same audience member, who asks why Sunak called an early election.
Sunak says "my number one job was to make sure we had economic stability".
Bruce pushes - are you glad you called it, prompting laughter from the audience.
Sunak says of course things are "difficult", but when he fought Liz Truss for the Tory leadership he "kept going" and was "proved right".
He then accuses Starmer of pursuing the "same fantasy" as Liz Truss.
Postpublished at 21:53 20 June
21:53 20 June
Henry Zeffman
Chief political correspondentRishi Sunak just got a questionfrom a woman who told him that for her this election was about immigration,illegal immigration specifically.
The prime minister said thatillegal immigration “undermined the sense of fairness our entire country isbuilt on”, before touting the Rwanda plan.
It gave Sunak a rare opportunityduring tonight’s event to deliver on one of themes which he had hoped would sitat the heart of this election campaign. Another came when he had theopportunity to talk about inflation having fallen to 2% yesterday, saying “thatwas something I said I’d do and I’ve done it”.
The frustration for theConservatives is that campaign mishaps and the requirement to defend thebroader record of the past 14 years have meant he has too often been blown ontoother subjects. Not just tonight, but over the past four weeks.
